Indeed. Our society is engulfed in advertising that convinces us we will be better off with this product or this pair of pants. Some of the new products can be very useful. We need to practice “delayed gratification” in order to become free from debt and stop comparing ourselves to our neighbor.
I would be interested to see pics of you and your family dressed properly for your religious group, if it’s not to uncomfortable
I would, but I don't have any! My childhood home burned down along with everything that wasn't in the garage. We also didn't really take photos at church. I'd say that a lot of people in our group looked like the Duggars – long hair, long skirts. At church, the style was very 1930s...probably because all the elders were in their 70s.
Hi Liya, I read this with great interest because my dad grew up in an Apostolic faith that had many similarities to what you described. I wrote a little bit about it in an article called Belonging and Identity. I grew up in a farming community with hundreds of cousins around us, but my family didn't join that church (I visited a few times when I was young, and later in life for funerals or other special events), so I didn't feel a sense of belonging. I'm grateful that I didn't grow up in a legalistic setting like this. My faith has been something very real to me, and it's still very central to my life. But it's a relationship with Christ, not the trappings of a religion, that has been so transformative to me. Just wanted to say I can understand how these early experiences/teaching would have impacted you. Sometimes my cousins leave the stricter faith of their parents and listening to them talk about discovering the wonder and beauty of God's grace and love has always been a joy to me. When all they knew was legalism and the threat of condemnation, it's no wonder they felt like rebelling. I personally do believe the Bible is living and active and my beliefs have formed as I have studied His word. But the Savior who changed my life and gave me hope calls me Friend (John 15) and His banner over me is love. I don't have to perform to earn His love. I simply need to accept the free gift of His grace. I'm not seeking to convince you of anything, just sharing how my own beliefs came to be a joyful part of my inner life and a huge source of strength and joy. Very happy to read your work today. Thanks for sharing your background and how this has impacted you.
You would probably enjoy Rollo May’s book The Meaning of Anxiety. It’s not just belonging to religious groups to relieve anxiety. He believed this is also why people chose to live under an Authoritarian society. Their anxiety is relieved as the Dictator makes all the decisions for them.
If he is correct (I believe so) this is why people report panic attacks after high school and in University. The individual is overwhelmed by all the freedom to choose their path
That makes perfect sense. I read a ton as a child, so I always dreamed of freedom to explore the world. I wasn’t afraid of it but I always, always struggled with enjoying life in the moment rather than grinding it out for some future. That’s a form of anxiety, I believe. To this day, I miss the military structure that provides so much you don’t need to even think about .
I will see if I can find it at my library, thanks!
Anxiety is what I keep pondering. We both agree we had anxiety as young kids caused by our religious groups? I have read what guys like Rollo May have said about anxiety and the group. He believed the fear/anxiety is what keeps people in these groups. He says what is most anxiety causing is to leave the group and be FREE to make your own decisions and path in life. That makes a lot of sense to me. Freedom causing anxiety will keep people dependent for life. Anxiety if you stay and more anxiety if you leave?
interesting. Maybe so...I think it was that way for my parents. I think neither of them trusted themselves to make good decisions (rightly so; they didn't when they eventually freed themselves).
For me, I think it was just that the group itself was SO obsessed with the afterlife/hell/the lake of fire. They were so nihilistic about the present...I've listened to podcasts with people who came from a secretive culty group called the 2 by 2s (who use all the same language we used) that was likewise obsessed with hellfire and it was pretty anxiety inducing for them, too.
This is good. I grew up in the Buckle of the Bible Belt. I attended a Southern Baptist Church growing up. My children’s Bible had a scary picture of Satan being cast out of Heaven. I can still see it in my mind. It did make me fearful of being watched over and judged if I did something wrong
Your community does resemble the Mennonites. I know some of them through the landscaping business. They do great work. They buy state of the art equipment to get the job done efficiently but they have to take the radio out of their new trucks. I asked about internet usage and was told they just have to get counseling before they can use it. One of them I was closest to even follows me on fb. I believe he is mainly there to advertise his services. I use to really enjoy visiting with those guys.
I get the fact that I wouldn’t be able to follow a literal interpretation of Scripture as they do but I often pondered if they were happier people as a tight community that appear very helpful to each other? 🤔
You can see German characteristics in them. Their women wear what a country friend of mine refers to as a “ Prairie Dress”. I noticed some of the women are very attractive. They have big blue eyes with blonde hair. The men are restricted in their appearance. All the haircuts are clean cut, from what I’ve seen, and I don’t believe they can wear like a North Face jacket that has the name or logo. They aren’t suppose to display signs of wealth. Some of them do very well financially as carpenters and some use big heavy equipment to move dirt for people and build dams for ponds. I believe when they build their homes they have church elders that make sure it’s not to over the top nice. So the men are restricted in that sense too.
My guess is they have more 💰 invested in their equipment for work rather than home dwelling. They were originally a farming community but it appears they raise more catfish these days than soy bean or cotton. They are definitely keeping up with economic trends. They told me they don’t vote but do give Cesar his taxes.
From what I can tell everyone that is not Mennonite living around them are respectful of them. People see the good work they do and respect that. They are also not out seeking new members. They have their cousins that live in other old farming communities around the country and I believe with that broader scale of people they can find mates without any trouble
Thanks for commenting, Jason! I’m glad you found it a good read.
I know the Southern Baptists well…they’re definitely much looser than us in almost every way, except I find they’re extremely involved in domestic life. I read somewhere that this was due to them being on the “losing side” of the Civil Rights movement, so they stopped being societally oriented and took on a more inward/family orientation.
My mother almost became a Mennonite like her friend, but went with the assemblies instead. When we’d visit her friend, I noticed they were like us but more strict. So we wore head coverings in a meeting setting, while they wore head coverings all the time. We didn’t *have* to wear prairie dresses outside of meeting, but the Mennonites do.
Interestingly, my mom’s friend very much had a German/Dutch look (blonde hair and blue eyes, large features) like you noticed as well. I generally respect the way of life; I just wish it weren’t so punitive — that’s the flip side to conformity! Still, it would be nice if more of Christianity embraced the counter-cultural, anti-materialist ethos of these more modest and insular sects.
By modest, I don’t necessarily mean anything to do with clothing — I mean their modest values. They have a simple life and reject wealth/materialism. We did too; our elders definitely frowned on wealth and any occupation that might centre wealth.
In contrast, I know Southern Baptists who exploit prison labour and invest in, say, tobacco companies. This would’ve been a non-starter in my community.
Indeed. Our society is engulfed in advertising that convinces us we will be better off with this product or this pair of pants. Some of the new products can be very useful. We need to practice “delayed gratification” in order to become free from debt and stop comparing ourselves to our neighbor.
I would be interested to see pics of you and your family dressed properly for your religious group, if it’s not to uncomfortable
We absolutely do!
I would, but I don't have any! My childhood home burned down along with everything that wasn't in the garage. We also didn't really take photos at church. I'd say that a lot of people in our group looked like the Duggars – long hair, long skirts. At church, the style was very 1930s...probably because all the elders were in their 70s.
Hi Liya, I read this with great interest because my dad grew up in an Apostolic faith that had many similarities to what you described. I wrote a little bit about it in an article called Belonging and Identity. I grew up in a farming community with hundreds of cousins around us, but my family didn't join that church (I visited a few times when I was young, and later in life for funerals or other special events), so I didn't feel a sense of belonging. I'm grateful that I didn't grow up in a legalistic setting like this. My faith has been something very real to me, and it's still very central to my life. But it's a relationship with Christ, not the trappings of a religion, that has been so transformative to me. Just wanted to say I can understand how these early experiences/teaching would have impacted you. Sometimes my cousins leave the stricter faith of their parents and listening to them talk about discovering the wonder and beauty of God's grace and love has always been a joy to me. When all they knew was legalism and the threat of condemnation, it's no wonder they felt like rebelling. I personally do believe the Bible is living and active and my beliefs have formed as I have studied His word. But the Savior who changed my life and gave me hope calls me Friend (John 15) and His banner over me is love. I don't have to perform to earn His love. I simply need to accept the free gift of His grace. I'm not seeking to convince you of anything, just sharing how my own beliefs came to be a joyful part of my inner life and a huge source of strength and joy. Very happy to read your work today. Thanks for sharing your background and how this has impacted you.
You would probably enjoy Rollo May’s book The Meaning of Anxiety. It’s not just belonging to religious groups to relieve anxiety. He believed this is also why people chose to live under an Authoritarian society. Their anxiety is relieved as the Dictator makes all the decisions for them.
If he is correct (I believe so) this is why people report panic attacks after high school and in University. The individual is overwhelmed by all the freedom to choose their path
That makes perfect sense. I read a ton as a child, so I always dreamed of freedom to explore the world. I wasn’t afraid of it but I always, always struggled with enjoying life in the moment rather than grinding it out for some future. That’s a form of anxiety, I believe. To this day, I miss the military structure that provides so much you don’t need to even think about .
I will see if I can find it at my library, thanks!
Anxiety is what I keep pondering. We both agree we had anxiety as young kids caused by our religious groups? I have read what guys like Rollo May have said about anxiety and the group. He believed the fear/anxiety is what keeps people in these groups. He says what is most anxiety causing is to leave the group and be FREE to make your own decisions and path in life. That makes a lot of sense to me. Freedom causing anxiety will keep people dependent for life. Anxiety if you stay and more anxiety if you leave?
interesting. Maybe so...I think it was that way for my parents. I think neither of them trusted themselves to make good decisions (rightly so; they didn't when they eventually freed themselves).
For me, I think it was just that the group itself was SO obsessed with the afterlife/hell/the lake of fire. They were so nihilistic about the present...I've listened to podcasts with people who came from a secretive culty group called the 2 by 2s (who use all the same language we used) that was likewise obsessed with hellfire and it was pretty anxiety inducing for them, too.
This is good. I grew up in the Buckle of the Bible Belt. I attended a Southern Baptist Church growing up. My children’s Bible had a scary picture of Satan being cast out of Heaven. I can still see it in my mind. It did make me fearful of being watched over and judged if I did something wrong
Your community does resemble the Mennonites. I know some of them through the landscaping business. They do great work. They buy state of the art equipment to get the job done efficiently but they have to take the radio out of their new trucks. I asked about internet usage and was told they just have to get counseling before they can use it. One of them I was closest to even follows me on fb. I believe he is mainly there to advertise his services. I use to really enjoy visiting with those guys.
I get the fact that I wouldn’t be able to follow a literal interpretation of Scripture as they do but I often pondered if they were happier people as a tight community that appear very helpful to each other? 🤔
You can see German characteristics in them. Their women wear what a country friend of mine refers to as a “ Prairie Dress”. I noticed some of the women are very attractive. They have big blue eyes with blonde hair. The men are restricted in their appearance. All the haircuts are clean cut, from what I’ve seen, and I don’t believe they can wear like a North Face jacket that has the name or logo. They aren’t suppose to display signs of wealth. Some of them do very well financially as carpenters and some use big heavy equipment to move dirt for people and build dams for ponds. I believe when they build their homes they have church elders that make sure it’s not to over the top nice. So the men are restricted in that sense too.
My guess is they have more 💰 invested in their equipment for work rather than home dwelling. They were originally a farming community but it appears they raise more catfish these days than soy bean or cotton. They are definitely keeping up with economic trends. They told me they don’t vote but do give Cesar his taxes.
From what I can tell everyone that is not Mennonite living around them are respectful of them. People see the good work they do and respect that. They are also not out seeking new members. They have their cousins that live in other old farming communities around the country and I believe with that broader scale of people they can find mates without any trouble
Thanks for commenting, Jason! I’m glad you found it a good read.
I know the Southern Baptists well…they’re definitely much looser than us in almost every way, except I find they’re extremely involved in domestic life. I read somewhere that this was due to them being on the “losing side” of the Civil Rights movement, so they stopped being societally oriented and took on a more inward/family orientation.
My mother almost became a Mennonite like her friend, but went with the assemblies instead. When we’d visit her friend, I noticed they were like us but more strict. So we wore head coverings in a meeting setting, while they wore head coverings all the time. We didn’t *have* to wear prairie dresses outside of meeting, but the Mennonites do.
Interestingly, my mom’s friend very much had a German/Dutch look (blonde hair and blue eyes, large features) like you noticed as well. I generally respect the way of life; I just wish it weren’t so punitive — that’s the flip side to conformity! Still, it would be nice if more of Christianity embraced the counter-cultural, anti-materialist ethos of these more modest and insular sects.
By modest, I don’t necessarily mean anything to do with clothing — I mean their modest values. They have a simple life and reject wealth/materialism. We did too; our elders definitely frowned on wealth and any occupation that might centre wealth.
In contrast, I know Southern Baptists who exploit prison labour and invest in, say, tobacco companies. This would’ve been a non-starter in my community.